Middleboro's Failed Schools

More than half of your tax dollars in Middleboro go to fund education.

Middleboro's schools are failing our town's children.

While some might proclaim additional funding is the solution, that appears not to be the case based on comparisons with other municipalities.

Are Middleboro's children less educable than other towns?

Or should we look elsewhere?

Should we begin to ask questions concerning education?

Your comments?

The following was posted on the middleborocasino site:


VegasVal

Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 128 10/06/07 at 01:59 AM #1

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This is what comes of cutting too much money from the Education Budget. Isn't it time we made a committment to paying competitive salaries so we can attract the best teachers? Isn't it time we allocated sufficient funds for our schools in the budget? Let's stop leaving our children behind.

http://www.southcoasttoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070927/PUB04/709270421


pcunix



Registered: 09/08/07
Posts: 172 10/06/07 at 07:01 AM #2

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In the short term, yes.

Longer term, let's stop this asinine method of funding education. Rich towns make sure their kids get every advantage possible, while poor towns wish they could do the same but can't.

Everybody says "Think of the children" but they don't really mean it: people in Sharon, Weston et al. don't give a hoot about how badly YOUR children fare as long as their kids get the best.

If we *really* believe that education is critical for a just and stable society, if we really believe that EVERY child deserves a good education AND THAT OUR WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE IF EVERY CHILD HAS THAT, then we need to get rid of local funding for education and demand that education taxes (however they are raised) are pooled and EQUALLY DISTRIBUTED.

__________________
Tony Lawrence
http://OakPointCommunity.org
http://aplawrence.com

VegasVal
Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 128 10/06/07 at 11:02 PM #3

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I love your equal distribution proposal! I think it's dynamite - but unlikely to ever happen in the land where "all men are created equal." LOL! My post was actually naively intended to encourage support for the next prop 2 1/2 over ride. Naive, I know! LOL!

It also would be nice if those dreamers who believe there's a pot of gold hidden someplace in the budget could get a grip on reality.


pcunix
Registered: 09/08/07
Posts: 172 10/06/07 at 11:25 PM #4

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It won't happen because the rich towns wouldn't like it.. imagine the travesty of a
kid in Roxbury getting the same education as a kid in Sharon.. can't have that!

__________________
Tony Lawrence
http://OakPointCommunity.org
http://aplawrence.com

VegasVal
Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 128 10/06/07 at 11:37 PM #5

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Oh, how right you are!

therealraven

Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 153 10/08/07 at 03:57 PM #6

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I'd suggest you do a search on per pupil expeditures for each community in the state. You can acess this information via Massachusetts DOE (link below) or you may wish to check Massachusetts Teachers Association web site. You'd be surprised what is actually being spent in some poor communities. Much higher than rural communities even with SPED costs factored in. Richer/rural communities actually work out even more favorabably in equalization formulas. Try to also research information regarding per pupil expeditures for both regular education and special education and the number of SPED students in each community. That'll give you a good benchmark for comparision if you cannot seperate SPED/Regular Ed costs. SPED students usually comprise about 15-18% of the school population and most services are minimal.

Students who perform worse than others usually fit into certain categories. Parents are college educated success more likely no matter what the school setting. Free lunch, one parent families, lower socio-economic level, ESL and on and on all impact on school performance. The breakdowns are there on all town and state MCAS results.

Examine Middleboro. We are a "white bread" community that woefully under performs when compared with other schools systems. This is a community that is 97% white and middle class yet performance issue has been apparent for decade upon decade. I believe that we are now funded at state level and our per pupil expenses are in line with other communities yet we continue to fail. Why? One thing is that Middleboro has a low amount of college graduates - 14%.

Take a look at charter schools and try to determine why they are more successful? The complexities of education go well beyond tossing money at the problem.

Try this site. http://profiles.doe.mass.edu/ppx.aspx


pcunix
Registered: 09/08/07
Posts: 172 10/08/07 at 04:27 PM #7

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Blah, blah, blah.


And yet here we are, lacking money to fund our schools. Would we be lacking
if education was state funded? Perhaps so, but we wouldn't be losing our
accreditation, would we?
__________________
Tony Lawrence
http://OakPointCommunity.org
http://aplawrence.com

Indy
Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 48 10/08/07 at 06:54 PM #8

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Realraven:

This sentence caught my eye in the above cited article:

Under the federal No Child Left Behind Act (NCLB), all students must achieve proficiency in English Language Arts and mathematics by the year 2014.

Surely they are not including all special needs kids. That expectation would be ludicrous. I've also been watching polls on the efficacy of MCAS as an indicator of how much a student has learned. Most people feel this test should not be so heavily weighted, that other factors should be taken into consideration as well..

I do agree that teachers should be paid commensurate with other professionals who receive the same amount of eduction and training. Traditionally human service providers are also underpaid. Guess that says something about what our society values.

BTW, ignore Tony's comments. He is a (SKIA), sarcastic know it all. LOL
__________________
Is the world a safe place? Al Einstein

therealraven

Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 153 10/08/07 at 07:53 PM #9

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All I printed were the cold hard facts, Tony. You were wrong! Get that! Wrong! Middleboro is in the middle of the pack on funding. Middleboro is in guidelines with state standards regarding per pupil expenditures. Your per pupil expenditures in Roxbury will be greater than in Sharon and your performance in Sharon will exceed Roxbury even if you short Sharon by 2K and give it all to Roxbury. You cannot equate spending in Massachusetts with student success. As far as funding? The problems of under performance have to do with a multitude of issues that go beyond the scope of educators. Just, for once, do the research and see exactly what we are getting from the state? What are we getting from the Federal Government? Here it is, Tony. Your plan for equal funding will short the schools that need it most. Want proof? Call up the NEA and MTA and ask their position.

The accredidation is why? Check why it's potentially gone. Tell ME why Middleboro is in WARNING status. Remember...this is no big deal.

Quote:
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Isn't it time we made a committment to paying competitive salaries so we can attract the best teachers?
__________________________

We have competitive salaries. What exactly is the best teachers? Will you and Tony explain to me exactly what that is? Does highly paid make one a great teacher? What I read into the statement is that right now Middleboro is failing due to not attracting the best staff. Please tell me who is underperforming? How often have either you or Val ever wandered into a classroom? What do either of you know about curriculum? If I asked either of you does Middleboro use Wilson would you have a clue of what I am talking about? ? Do either of you have the slightest idea of what an IEP is? Do either of you know what math series is being used in Middleboro? Does Middleboro HS use portfolios? What are the requirements to get into BP Vo-Tech? Take a look at how many staff in Middleboro are now classified as "Highly competent." I would not be surprised if it was 100% or missed by only a few staff members. Do either of you know what goes into that status? I'm sure both Tony and Val are totally familar with the Massachuseets Frameworks and how it ties into MCAS? Do either of you have any idea of how the salary structure in education works? If so, please inform me so I can know.

Massachusetts is far ahead of other states in compliance with standards. Our MCAS will soon included both Science and History. Our MCAS scores have been so successful at this point that the bar will be raised even further. Look for a 240 passing grade. But, then again, our education expert, Tony, already knew that. Exactly what does proficent mean on MCAS, Tony? As far as SPED students accomadations and modifications are inserted to best address the learning styles of these students. If necessary portfolio assessment can take place for students that have significant deficits.

After reading Tony and Val on this thread I have to say: "Needs Improvement."

pcunix
Registered: 09/08/07
Posts: 172 10/08/07 at 09:08 PM #10

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I understand that money isn't the only issue in education. Nevertheless, I still
feel that funding it through local property tax is wrong. If we really believe that
every child is entitled to the same educational opportunities (and we should
believe that), local taxes shouldn't be part of it.

I'm no expert on education - heck, I dropped out of high school at sixteen
and spent the previous seven years daydreaming and doing as little as
possible. I am a near 100% autodidact and it's no great stretch to realize
the gaps that sort of education leaves. Still, I believe that good educational
opportunities are critical for the success of society. Plainly what we
are doing now is not working well, and I think that tying local property
taxes to education is part of the problem.

Maybe I'm wrong..

________________
Tony Lawrence
http://OakPointCommunity.org
http://aplawrence.com

VegasVal
Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 128 10/09/07 at 12:21 AM #11

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I'm going to have to disagree with you here. Middleboro is FAR FROM a "white bread" community. The residents might fancy themselves as such, but I daresay, that is NOT the case. Middleboro is a VERY mixed community with a very significant blue collar element. There is a large portion of the population that would appear to not be very well educated themselves, so it should serve as no surprise that their children are not "on the college track" to begin with. Some of the "redneck mentality" that has been seen in the "casino wars" is clearly demonstrative of a less than educated population.

Neither myself or Tony need to be experts in the field of education to adequately digest, understand and respond to the State's clear cut message regarding the quality of our schools. If you want to argue that the teacher to student ratio is acceptable or even outstanding - then I think it is very safe to say that we might have less than adequately skilled teachers in our employ. There ARE GOOD teachers, just as there are good insurance salesmen, good doctors and good lawyers. In order to get the BEST that money can buy - you have to be willing to pay for it.

pcunix
Registered: 09/08/07
Posts: 172 10/09/07 at 07:31 AM #12

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Even good teachers can fail with horrible students.

For example, say you have kids who have been raised by Creationist parents.
Most of those crazies home school their kids if they can't afford private
schools, but lets say the economy is so bad both parents need to work.

The schools teach evolution. The kids have been told over and over
again that this is a lie. Obviously you aren't going to make much
headway in that area, and it probably spills over into other subjects.
If your teacher is a godless enemy, well heck, why wouldn't said
teacher lie to you about other things? It's all driven by the Great
Satan anyway.. how can a damaged kid like that have respect for
the process that tries to teach him something so opposed to his
parents core beliefs?

Then you have the kids with other problems. A teacher from
Brockton told me about one of her students who sometimes
slept in the streets and was always malnourished. She said she
just found it impossible to hold this kid to academic standards and
that she felt guilty even trying: the child needed a family, food and
healthcare much more than he needed an education.

Finally, as one of our Mighty Thirteen Hundred mentioned, you have
the kids with mental, emotional or extreme physical handicaps. We
do try much harder with them than we used to, but it can be uphill
all the way and sometimes its pretty obvious that the ride will have
to stop long before the top.

therealraven
Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 153 10/09/07 at 10:37 AM #16

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Here it is in a nutshell. Middleboro is 97% white. That's far from any level of ethnic diversity. I can point out one school system nearby that has 17 languages spoken in the system. How many Kehmer, Polish, Russian, Spanish and so on students does Middleboro have? Look at the racial breakdown of communities in the state. Middleboro is white. Take a look at our average income, college educated population, unemployment figures, home prices to get a view of our economic status - which is also slightly under average.

Middleboro funds about middle of the road. Middleboro schools underperform similar communities and have for years. Is it a teacher issue? Is it an administrative issue? Is it a culture issue?

Throw all the money you want at under performing schools since it rarely works. Your own notation on the Brockton teacher tells what the real story is and that makes Middleboro's situation even more of an anomoly to me.

Quote:
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Even good teachers can fail with horrible students.
_______________________________

This is almost as bizarre as you creationist BS. You are 100% wrong. 100%! That is a complete insult to virtually every teacher in every classroom. And just what is a "horrible" student? Is it behavioral issues? Academic issues?

Now, Val, money gets you the best? I'll say this about you and Tony in that you have virtually no idea of what goes into making a teacher, a staff or an administrator. Nothing. Money and a czar of eduaction will solve all woes.


therealraven

Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 153 Today at 10:50 AM #20
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Link to MCAS results

http://www.bostonherald.com/projects/mcas/

http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/middleborocasino/vpost?id=2202775&trail=30